Tamiya Panzer III, Ausf L Tunisia 1943

[Stikpusher]

Thank you for sending that my way, Carlos.

I wonder how true to life those photos are, color-wise. I recall our friend Bruce mentioning to me that Kodachrome remains pretty faithful to the original color of the subject of the photo. but I know next to nothing about that stuff.

Anyway, the tank in the photo looks to be more green in the mix, paint-wise. But cloud cover could cause that shift. So could dirt. I look at some of the highlights though and then look at the color of my model, and I say to myself "Good enough for government work!"

Having said that, have a look at the turret number. Maybe the often thick and unwieldy Tamiya decals really *DO* a good job representing them HAHA! It actually makes me want to explore painting the turret numbers on myself. Its something to think about.

Thank you for the great photo! I love it and I'll be using it moving forward with my DAK stuff. And as it happens, if you ever find more to pass my way, please do, or if you know a good source. I'd like to bring more realism and accuracy into my builds moving forward.

You touched on a few things that I can answer here. But I certainly defer to Bruce’s expertise in regards to photography.

First off, the Panzer III in the photo is from the first Tiger unit sent to Africa in late 1942, so it pre dates the use of Dark Yellow. That unit’s stalking Tiger insignia is visible by the driver’s vision port. It’s probably in the 1942 “Tropen” colors of RAL 8020 or possibly RAL 7027.

The Germans applied their turret numbers usually by hand painting so painting your own is a great idea for a better look. I find the Life archives to be a great source of original WWII color photos, but it’s clunky to search and navigate. I have a few different photos of different armor that I’ve saved up over the years that I’ve found while browsing. Hopefully some of them may be of some use to you.

[KennyX]

Carlos,

Thank you for the input!! That helps guide my preliminary decision making with my Panzer IV X Exorcist project I’ll be starting construction on, tomorrow.

The kit calls the dark yellow- likely RAL 8020. But when scrutinizing the reference photo, I see subtle hints on camo. So I did some digging and learned about the Tropen II camo scheme, which #215 very well may have worn:



If I’m understanding things correctly, in the beginning of ‘42, German armor was Dunklegrau, and then oversprayed later with Tropen II Camo scheme. Would that apply to a Panzer marauding around El-Alamein Egypt, at the time?

[mustang1989]

1.) I can't believe my eyes!! Is that Kenny X??!! It's great to have you back in the modeling community once again brother. I've been wondering how you've been doing and look in and.......here you are!!

2.) Some really good work going on in this thread and again I can't believe my eyes to see that you're now building armor!!! I think you may have found your niche bud.

Good to see you potna.

Joe

[KennyX]

JOE!!!!!

It’s great seeing you, and thank you for stopping by my thread with the kind words. I appreciate it.

Yes sir. Armor. Crazy, I know. Armor. I was crashing and burning left and right with aircraft. Pun intended. Airplanes are great. They’re wonderful. My niche however, as you said, very-well might just be armor. The subject matter agrees with my methods, that is to say- the natural process of building, painting, weathering, just seems to feel more natural for me in an armor, and armor-adjacent context right now. And I’m thoroughly enjoying it.

It’s good to be home. It’s good to be back where my friends are.

It’s really good seeing you, Joe :-)

[Stikpusher]

Carlos,

Thank you for the input!! That helps guide my preliminary decision making with my Panzer IV X Exorcist project I’ll be starting construction on, tomorrow.

The kit calls the dark yellow- likely RAL 8020. But when scrutinizing the reference photo, I see subtle hints on camo. So I did some digging and learned about the Tropen II camo scheme, which #215 very well may have worn:



If I’m understanding things correctly, in the beginning of ‘42, German armor was Dunklegrau, and then oversprayed later with Tropen II Camo scheme. Would that apply to a Panzer marauding around El-Alamein Egypt, at the time?

Ok, a quick basic rundown on Panzer colors. At least according to current accepted wisdom (not mine )


At the outbreak of war, German vehicles are overall Dark Gray with a secondary color of Dark Brown. The colors are very low contrast to one another and it rarely shows up in photos.

June 1940, color scheme is directed to be changed to solid overall Dark Gray, no secondary colors. Initial DAK units deploy in these colors promptly adopt field improvised camo of mud applied onto the vehicles to better blend with the local terrain, since Dark Gray stands out.

Spring 1941, initial Tropen colors created and sent to North Africa for application on vehicles already in theater. Replacement vehicles or reinforcements get their vehicles factory painted or re painted in depots before shipment to Africa. Some of those vehicles and paints also are sent to Russia in summer 1941 for use there. Vehicles designated for use in Europe still come from the factory in solid overall Dark Gray.

Spring 1942, second Tropen colors are introduced and changeover occurs as supplies permit. Same happens as 1941 with Tropen paints and factory painted vehicles also being sent to Russia. Official Europe paint scheme remains solid overall Dark Gray.

Feb 1943, new three color scheme of Dark Yellow base at factories is introduced, with secondary colors of Red Brown and Olive Green being issued to units for application by the units by the crews to best match local conditions. All three colors are used to repaint previously overall gray vehicles as supplies permit and to match local conditions.
Fall 1944 and three color camo begins to be applied at the factories, instead of the solid dark yellow base coat, and this continues until the end of the war. In early 1945, the base color of the three color factory scheme becomes the Olive Green instead of Dark Yellow.

[KennyX]

So Carlos, if a Panzer was serving in El-Alamein Egypt in Autumn of ‘42, then he’d be wearing the RAL 8020, RAL 7027 in a field applied fashion, then? And we wouldn’t be working with a Panzer Grey base coat? I hope that the case at least, as I dislike using many base coats HAHAHAA

[Stikpusher]

So Carlos, if a Panzer was serving in El-Alamein Egypt in Autumn of ‘42, then he’d be wearing the RAL 8020, RAL 7027 in a field applied fashion, then? And we wouldn’t be working with a Panzer Grey base coat? I hope that the case at least, as I dislike using many base coats HAHAHAA

Correct, no Panzer Gray base coat. Here is my note on DAK colors for 1942

1942:
RAL 8020 base, 1/3 disruptive pattern RAL 7027. Alternate of RAL 8020 with RAL 7021 pattern or over RAL 7021 base

Here is a 15th Panzer Mk.IV G after El Guettar in Tunisia in spring 1943. It looks to have the 8020/7027 scheme. Also notice how the interior of the hatches are gray, which was pretty standard on DAK vehicles, even if painted at the factory.

[KennyX]

Thank you Carlos!

I suppose on the one hand I’ve kinda boned it in terms of the paint on this particular project- I hadn’t sprayed the disruptive pattern.

I can remember at first glance, after picking this subject and looking at the photo, thinking “Cool! A monotone paint job.” Then I found out later that under certain light, those camo colors were virtually indistinguishable from one another. But I’m not going to let that stop me from completing the build.



On the other hand though, moving forward I’ve got clarity, especially for my Panzer IV project that begins today, so that’s great!

[Stikpusher]

Between light conditions, dust on the vehicle, and low contrast between the camouflage colors, it’s hard to really see any camo patterns. Not to mention that many vehicles were painted in overall single colors schemes, just to speed up painting and delivery. So no, you really didn’t bone up at all. Some evidence of what we think and see to be camouflage schemes can be stains on the paint and/or shadows. Don’t get to wrapped around the axles on this.

[KennyX]

Thanks buddy, I appreciate that. Not getting wrapped around the various axles we encounter as modelers is a goal I’m working on achieving, this go round.