F-4 Phantom Discussion Zone - Versions, Mods, Lumps & Bumps

[RexCag]

I mixed up two convos, one on HS, claiming that there were no Sidewinders on Phantoms until after 1967, and this one. (the HS convo used Wiki as the source, ack)

There are convos concerning AIM-4, and AIM-9 deployment dates going on here, on HS, and on ARC, all at the same time.

So, a summary of Vietnam.

F-4C were used in both Gray scheme and SEA, with Sidewinders. Sometimes on "naval" pylons, and sometimes on "air force" pylons. (Falcons had been tested on F-4C stateside, on Gray schemed aircraft, with "usaf" pylons)
F-4D were used in SEA scheme with Falcons.
F-4D were used in SEA scheme with Sidewinders after the hatred of the Falcon.
and F-4E were used with either missile type.

If I typed anything different than this in previous posts, I apologize.

[Stikpusher]

Nah, Rex, you are good. I know the Sidewinder was used on the C in the earliest days of their use in Vietnam. The D was introduced with no wiring for Sidewinders, but with Falcon wiring instead. But the Falcon was found in combat to be lacking. And then came the problems of field units wanting the Sidewinder against higher headquarters who backed the Falcon.

[Stikpusher]

Question- according to "Spirit in the Skies" (my F-4 bible), the F-4G (USAF type, not USN), received a longer pitot tube as part of the conversion. But not measurements are listed in the book. Does anybody have the dimensions? Old length, new length?

[RexCag]

I looked around for a few days, I wanted to actually be helpful.

I don't have a lot of F-4E/F-4G stuff, but, I can't find any drawing or dimension in text, anywhere.

Even Spirit isn't very helpful, the drawing has the line pointing to the feature, but, it seems to be the same length Pitot as on their F-4E drawings.

I hope some other Phantomologist has a better reference,,,,,maybe the F-4E F-4G Detail & Scale book?

[Stikpusher]

Yeah, I need to swing by the LHSs and see if one of them has that book on their shelves...
Thanks Rex.

[Duke Maddog]

I do believe that Military Hobbies has it. If not, they can get it for you and since you're a member of the club; you'll get a discount.

[Stikpusher]

Thanks Mark. I'll swing by there and have a look when I can.

[Stikpusher]

New question: vertical tail "slime" lights. Looking at photos, it appears that there is quite a bit of variety in where the lights are placed on the tail. Some are higher, some are lower, some more forward, some more aft. The nose and mud fuselage lights look to be placed pretty consistently, but not on the tail. Is there any reason for this?

[RexCag]

Well, for the first possibility there were two different tails.

One, which I call the F-4B tail was used on all except for the aircraft that used the "RF-4C tail".

This tail was designed for the RF-4C, then used on the RF-4B, the RF-4E, and the F-4M. This tail had different access panels along the first 1/3 of the tail, running from the top to the bottom. There was equipment behind them that the other versions didn't have. This might have caused them to have to be placed differently in order to miss those panels. (FYI, some drawings in Spirits show F-4B tails on aircraft that had the RF-4C tail. )

The other factor is that Slime Lights were an add-on (adhesive?) that were put on by different modification units at different times for the different services. They were also replaceable at the line unit level, if needed. So, even if they were once stuck on by a NARF (for the F-4S, for example), they could still look differently placed if the aircraft received later work at some other facility later on.

The Slimes put on the F-4C Wild Weasel aircraft seem to show a lot of variation, including some of them not having Slimes on them at all.

[Stikpusher]

I am looking at F-4G tails, and I see plenty of small variation just on that type... the more I reasearch and learn about the Phantom, the more I don't know... I wondered if some of the variation was due to equipment carried inside the tail on different versions. But within the same type...
Thanks Rex.