F-4 Phantom Discussion Zone - Versions, Mods, Lumps & Bumps

[RexCag]

cool photo,,,,,,,,,,but, I was talking about her from before the Bicentennial scheme, and before the F-4B radome got put on her.

153088 having a J radome, then a B, and then a J again should illustrate, for all the people wondering, that the F-4 could indeed have the radomes swapped fairly easily (and in fact did have)

For that reason, which radome a bird had can NOT determine which version it was. (except for the one-off F-4K with the Doppler Mod, of course)

[mostrich]

For that reason, which radome a bird had can NOT determine which version it was. (except for the one-off F-4M with the Doppler Mod, of course)

And there goes at least 25% of my Phantom knowledge...

[RexCag]

Don't worry, you'll get it all back when we discuss the Short Nosed Phantom versions and the lumps and bumps that went with them. (and the many, many Ringers this created)

[Stikpusher]

For that reason, which radome a bird had can NOT determine which version it was. (except for the one-off F-4M with the Doppler Mod, of course)

And there goes at least 25% of my Phantom knowledge...

Don't worry, Rex is gonna help us all with such problems

And no, I did not find any photos of her before the bicentennial scheme... unless I missed them thinking they were the same as later on. I know she was not a Black Bunny...

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-p ... 694672.jpg

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gerrit_ko ... 6286752591

[RexCag]

It may not be up on the web.

It was in a 1977 book that showed her, talked about the "slat program" and then said that the "F-4J may be upgraded as the F-4B was under Project Beeline, if the F-4S is indeed proceeded with", it also shows the other F-4J with slats, fixed outerwing only, in an Air Force test.

It also the same book that correctly identifies her as an F-4J, unlike a few others that have later called her an F-4B (based solely on the radome), the prototype F-4S, or as an F-4S. (because of her slats). She predated the F-4S program by quite a while, in fact, the first and next 46 F-4S aircraft didn't even have slats.** (F-4S never meant "F-4J with Slats" at all, it was just the next available letter on the proposed version list)

**the slats were retrofitted on surviving examples of these 47, after the conversions started getting them)

[RexCag]

Tommy covers the "Original Nose" Phantoms pretty well, here http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2009 ... m-iis.html

and Kim Simmerlink got a pretty good start on the F-4B noses here http://phantomphacts.blogspot.com/search/label/EW , however he missed a few things,,,,,so I will go through the entire list of "Short Nose" noses in this post.

Keep in mind that "later" doesn't actually mean "higher BuNo", it means later as in time,,,,,,and there were crossovers of early and late versions in use by the squadrons,,,,,sometimes with a mix in any given squadron.

The first F-4B nose looked just like the latest F-4A (in fact, in order to tell the "basic" F-4B from a late F-4A, you have to see the BuNo)

It is the nose shape that everyone knows is on the F-4A, F-4B and F-4C. That is the basic "lump" that housed the IR sensor. This had a metallic glass front end at first on the F-4A and F-4B, and appeared later on on the F-4B and F-4C with a fibreglass front end instead of the sensor (because the sensor had been removed from the F-4B)

This second nose of all fibreglass was used to house updated sensor equipment instead of the IR, and could also be used if it was empty in there. The Fibreglass bottom part (Donky Dick) could be swapped from one "F-4B type" Radome to another. This part could also be seen with a flat plate over the front, if the IR sensor was removed, but, no other gear put in there.

Next came a bump that is seen on some F-4B and many F-4D aircraft, it had a sort of "sled or skid" look to the bottom of the equipment fairing. There was also a rounded off bottom of this version that was seen only on F-4B aircraft.

After this is the type that many call the "Parrot Beak", because of its hook and bump shape. Seen only on F-4B. ("common knowledge says this", but, I have at least one photo of a Parrot Beak on an F-4N)

Then comes the Herpes Mod nose bump, seen on late F-4D aircraft)

And now comes some controversy,,,,,,I have started this list many times, on different forums, and when I get to this part, I get shouted down. That is because it doesn't agree with what "everyone knows". That is the so-called "F-4N nose". The most often seen F-4N nose looks a lot like the very first F-4B/C nose, except that the front cover of the bump stands farther forward, but, if you look at enough pics of F-4B noses, you will see this same nose on late F-4B as well. (that this was used on F-4B at all is where the trouble starts,,,,,,,If you look at enough late F-4B photos that you know is still an F-4B, you will see this "F-4N only" nose on them,,,,,,,once you know it, it is very hard to miss that extra length)

There is one more "F-4B nose" that can be seen,,,,,that is the nose bump with a camera installed for usage on the QF-4N.

So, the "noses with the bumps" list is this

F-4A/B shape with IR lens
F-4A/B/C shape without IR (same shape as above)
F-4B/D shape with the sled
F-4B that looks like the sled is shaved down
F-4B Parrot Beak
F-4B/N extended length cup on the front (think of a longer front cup on the old F-4A/B/C fairing)
F-4D Herpes Mod for later F-4D
QF-4N with camera in the bump

8 different bumps under the US Short Nosed Phantoms,,,,,,not just "any ole bump is good enough" as many kits box them up

There were also "no bump" late F-4C, early F-4D,,,,,,these were produced in the same blocks and used the F-4K/M smooth radomes. (late C and early D were built in the same production blocks for a while,,,,the Phantom didn't have a "full stop" cutoff between C and D models. The same thing happened with the F-4B and F-4J and later on it happened again with late RF-4B and RF-4C production)

These same bare radomes were used on the Blue Angels "F-4J with F-4B engines",,,,,,and the birds kept those when they went to other squadrons after the Blue's got "real" F-4Js. ("real" F-4J radomes had an equiment bump of their own, smaller and towards the rear of the radome)

Geez, I hope I didn't skip any, lol.

[RexCag]

The aircraft I am going to talk about now doesn't fit in any one category.

It qualifies as the "Ultimate Ringer" if ever a Phantom fits that description.

USAF Ser. No. 62-12200 (and her sister 62-12201) were converted on the F-4B production line into the YRF-4C. 62-12200 wasn't used much after the YRF-4C program, she wound up stuck on a stick at Chunute AFB. (and just for grins, the USAF got their YRF-4Cs before the Marines got the RF-4B, making the YRF-4C the prototype for the RF-4B)

But, 62-12200 was a very busy aircraft.

After serving as the Recce prototype, "200" went on to be the gun prototype for the F-4E, with the gun stuck in the Recce nose.

She moved over to McD, as the baseline aircraft, and slat test aircraft for the F-15 Eagle. (along with USN YF-4J 151497)

She later appeared as the YF-4E with a Beryllium rudder,,,,,,easy to spot, because it said Beryllium right across the bottom of the Rudder.

Then she moved to the Fly By Wire tests, and got a cool White and Blue paintjob. She also served in the PACT program, with the same paint scheme. After being there for about two years, she got canards added to the intake trunks, with that same cool white and blue paint job, for the CCV flight program.

(she was not the test bed for the slatted F-4E, just the F-15, the data was used to make the 4th production F-4E the F-4E with Slats prototype)

So, here's the plastic bits to use for her.

1) Use a thin winged RF-4 model, with F-4B/C engines. For the YRF-4C. "plain" tail tip, also.
2) Then use a thin winged RF-4 model, with F-4E engines and a gatling gun sticking out of the Recce nose, and still a plain tail tip.
2,3) Remove the gun for Agile Eagle, and add "Beryllium" to the tail for the second of those appearances. You can build her with the hard wing, or with fixed slats, to the many slat configs she tested.
4) paint her up in the White FBW scheme,,,,,,,with "real" F-4E slats (still thin winged, F-4E engines, non-slotted stabs) Does this make her the only "real" slatted thin winged Phantom? I think so, but, I am not positive.
5) same as above for PACT
6) add canards on the intakes, and use the FBW/PACT decal scheme

so, there you go, an aircraft that serves as a "wrong parts" wringer 6 different times.

Just be glad she was pulled from production and modified, or there would have been "F-4B deployments" for her as well.

I hope I didn't miss any of her configs,,,,someone chime in if I did.

[Stikpusher]

Not me mate... I'm a Phantom Phan... You my friend are a Phantom Phanatic.

[RexCag]

Geez, I hope I am not just boring a lot of people, LOL.

And I know, "Rex is biased towards the Short Nosed and Recce versions",,,,,,well, I didn't serve alongside any of the Long Nosed versions, or the Original Nosed (the Original was before my time, haha). I did see a bunch of them,,,,,but, not up close and personal like with the F-4B and F-4N (and some RF-4B)

[Stikpusher]

Well, seeing how you served on that side of the house, it makes sense that your more familiar with the snub nosed ones. As opposed to the land based flyboys in blue side.